Podcast Ep 9: David Garrigues Returns

You know that saying, be careful what you ask for?

Well get ready – because I sure wasn’t when I asked David Garrigues to sit down with me last week to talk a little about Parampara, that student-teacher relationship and how, in yoga, information is transmitted. Because he really took me to the mat in more than one way!

You see, I once (or twice) have said, David doesn’t teach me asana – which he disagreed with … strongly! So this became less the interview I had planned with David and more of a lesson I think he had planned for me. And the result is probably one of the liveliest, informative, and impassioned conversations we’ve had to date. One, by the way, I think you’ll really enjoy!

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If you want to get to know David as a teacher, as well as the poet and artist he is, you should definitely check out his two Ashtanga Journals he’s just published along with his partner Joy Marzec. These are a collection of David’s own personal musings. Again, David doesn’t hold back as he even shares challenges he personally has encountered, his own doubts and growth in faith – hoping others will benefit from his honesty.

 Which I do. All the time. Order Ashtanga Yoga: Maps and Musings Part 1 & 2, here.

Interested in partnering with our podcast? Let us know!


This podcast wouldn’t be possible without my producer and editor, Chris Lucas. Visit his website, cwlucas.com and bombard him with our gratitude!  🙂


PROJECT: Ashtanga Dispatch
INTERVIEW WITH: David Garrigues
DATE TRANSCRIBED: September 25, 2015

PM: [INTRO] Hey everyone, thanks for listening to the Ashtanga Dispatch podcast. I’m Peg Mulqueen and what you’re about to hear is a pretty lively and at times heated conversation with my teacher David Garrigues. Now, you might remember David from my very first episode. But if not, I highly recommend you go back and listen to that one. But this episode is different. This time, it’s not so much of an affectionate conversation, between a teacher and student, as it is this student here getting schooled by her teacher. Now my plan was to ask David a few questions about the student-teacher relationship in general and the way information is passed down over the years. In yoga, we call that parampara. David wanted to take up this issue as well, only with me, his student and I don’t think he cared who was listening. Because David walked into the room before we even got started and, in front of my daughter, let me know in no uncertain terms that a statement I made, about him not really teaching me asana was incorrect. Now please don’t judge me before listening to this entire episode. Just know that what you’re going to hear is not so much the interview I’d planned for David as much as a lesson I think he had planned for me. But it’s one I’m pretty sure you’re gonna enjoy as well.

Q: I have a hard time with not, well yeah, sometimes our relationship, the teacher-student relationship, what does it mean? Does it mean that you only learn from one person ever? I don’t know what it means. I don’t understand what parampara means in today’s terms. I know what the definition is, but I don’t exactly understand it in today, now.

A: Yeah.

Q: Not 100 years, not 50 years ago.

A: There’s more responsibility on the learner, on the student than before. Because there’s so much information and so you have to be discerning and you have to chart your own course more. I just wanna give you my idea though, of the lineage, okay? So, to me it starts at the top, with what I call ishvara pranidhana. “Pranidhana” is to surrender, to bow. Okay? And “ishvara” is just a name for the divine. For the most sacred thing that you can imagine, you bow to that. Okay, that’s the very head of everything. Okay? And if it’s kind of an abstract background, it’s still the top. Next in that comes hatha yoga. It’s just direct, we get right to it. Okay and hatha yoga, there’s many type of hatha yoga, but here is what defines hatha yoga. It’s four things, asana, which is posture, pranayama, it’s breathing. Mudras, which are bandhas, the internal locks, the sealing in of prana, of life force. And Samadhi, which is concentration of the mind. Okay, those four elements are what make up hatha yoga. Okay, so that the way that you bow, is by working with asanas and breathing and mudras, and these things. Then, you’ve got Ashtanga yoga. Okay, so that’s a certain type of hatha yoga, that came from a man, Patthabi Jois. So then you have to kind of go from him, his teacher, Krishnamacharya, there’s this kind of lineage of actual physical teachers of that hatha yoga, of the asanas and pranayama that you are looking to for inspiration, for guidance. For me, this is me personally, Krishnamacharya is a very important piece of the puzzle. And I have a affinity towards the man that I worked with physically, Pattabhi Jois, and I never did meet his teacher. But I have a very strong affinity to him as well, to Krishnamacharya. And through his photographs, his writings, and these things. The way that he saw yoga filtered down to the way Pattabhi Jois saw yoga. And also, Iyengar is part of that lineage too. Am I getting too detailed?

Q: No, it’s good.

A: Okay and for me, part of my history is studying Iyengar yoga with senior teacher of Iyengar. I never did meet Iyengar. So, I’ve got kind of two strains coming from Krishnamacharya. Those are very important to me in terms of this stepping up. So, we’ve got Ashtanga yoga that leads to hatha yoga, that leads to bowing. And Pattabhi Jois, he taught me himself, right? And so he’s part of the lineage for me. And then, I’m a teacher. I have students. And so that means that I’m now part of transferring that learning down and helping the people go up that chain of thing all the way to the top. So, it’s really about the surrender, self, through hatha yoga, through a method of hatha yoga and then I have teachers that now have students. So that goes on and on, and on. Like that, that is parampara. The thing is though, that does not cover the whole subject [laughs].

Q: No, I mean that is a great, broad explanation and certainly important. But the way it’s interpreted practically and in reality is really different.

A: So one thing is even something as apparently systematized and defined as Ashtanga, it’s pretty defined. First series, second series, is open to such a wide interpretation. And to me you wouldn’t want it any other way. I love the statement of Carl Jung. He said, “I would never wanna be a Jungian.” [laughs] Come on! Pattabhi was not a Pattabi Jois-ian! He was teaching yoga! Freely. According to his spirit. According to his own decision making, his own originality, his creativity. I mean he, he bowed to Krishnamacharya, his teacher and he learned from him. It took so much but was he like Krishnamacharya? No, no. No, look, just look, he was not. And so the person that tries to be like Pattabhi Jois is already not like Pattabhi Jois, you’ve already spoiled parampara and so whoa! What do you have then? You have to be so careful, because there is some through line, some thread, something that each took from the other and connected each to each other. But it certainly can’t be this rigid hard set line of rules that’s only this. What?! Pattabhi Jois wasn’t like that, so wh-, but then, are you gonna try to be like, do that? That’s already gone away from the spirit. Within, I mean, the series changed here and there, but not that much. So there was a consistency. Right? And so there is some kind of continuity that needs to be kept. So the person that’s trying to be strict, trying to be so rigid about it and contain it, they have a good motive in a way, maybe. They’re partially right at least, because if it’s just a free-for all, then where do you, what happened to primary series? Because now that’s too strict. And Janu Sirsasana C is too hard for everybody so let’s just throw that one out. This one’s too hard, this is too that… Then you lose it. So there’s a dance, there’s a respect for what came and for your teacher and what they’re offering and their connection to what was offered to them. And yet, there’s your own voice, there’s an evolution to it. It has to open up it something new and to reach a whole new group of people. It’s a living thing, it has to change and be creative and breathe. And that’s so beautiful. But so risky, because where’s the continuity? So it’s a very important oppositional thing you have to embrace—a continuity, a respect for what came before and embracing of what’s original within you and the audience, the people that you’re gonna share with.

Q: So, it’s like you brought me right back to the top. So you said that, what you have to surrender to in the very beginning.

A: Mm-hm.

Q: Right?

A: Yes.

Q: And then it takes you away from that, right, we went away from that, we went to the hatha yoga and then, we go into the lineage and then you circle right back up.

A: Yeah. But, but you can go back up slowly too. This heretical to say, but I’ll tell you this-

Q: Say it anyway.

A: Each level trumps the other. This bowing is first. It is more important than hatha yoga. And hatha yoga is more important than Ashtanga yoga. It’s a more important category. So the very fact that you do asana, however you do it, is more important than Ashtanga, than you doing Ashtanga. Or you can put it this way: Ashtanga is supposed to teach you hatha yoga. It’s supposed to teach you asana, pranayama, mudra, and Samadhi. That’s all. It’s not supposed to teach you first series. First series happens to be a pretty damn good medium to teach you hatha yoga. But don’t lose sight, that’s when you become too rigid. That this has to happen before, like you have to drop back before you can do second series. Is that really serving hatha yoga? Maybe. For some students. For others, maybe not. So you remember that you’re extracting hatha yoga from Ashtanga yoga. You’re extracting ishvara pranidhana from hatha yoga. It’s very important to keep that in mind. And it simplifies it. I mean, no?

Q: No, I was just gonna say it’s much simpler taking other people’s definitions of it and saying well, you teach as you’ve been taught.

A: But yeah, ’cause I’m telling you that’s impossible. You cannot do that. You can’t, try! It lasts for about one day. And then you’re on to you. Right? Yeah. And who would want you to be me? Who wants you to be a caricature of somebody else?

Q: Call me coyote.

A: Exactly.

Q: I can’t even ask you now any of the questions that I wanted to ask because they seem so stupid. The things that people get so caught up in, like whether to use a prop or a blanket. Um.

A: Ridiculous. Ridiculous question, I’m sorry. And I say it, and people are probably used to me saying it. Your body is a prop. Okay? There’s no getting away from props! Props are: being alive is already a prop. So just forget it, where are you gonna draw the-. So your mat, your mat’s no prop? Your little carpet? The towel that you use to dry your sweat off? Those aren’t props? So what, we’ve decided that this prop, ooh, that’s a block, no! It’s just, I’m sorry, I don’t buy it. I do not buy it.

Q: [laughs] Yeah, I’m throwing out the rest of my questions, but in a way.

A: No, keep going, I mean-

Q: But this is good because you know, as you were talking, I was thinking, I was having this conversation with somebody about God. The way we think about God when we’re five and the way we think about God when we’re five, he’s like sitting up on a cloud and he has a big long white beard and a robe, that’s what mine looks like. And he kind of-

A: You’re not alone.

Q: And he tells you if you’ve done good, you can come up there with him and if you haven’t then you go to that other place.

A: Trouble, yep.

Q: And it’s a really simplistic way, but a lot of us grow up to be adults and we still think of God in that way. We still think of God like we did as a five year old. It’s easy.

A: Yeah. You’re kind of using it in a benign way, because if you grow up and you still think of God like that, there’s more of the chances that you don’t believe in God anymore. Forget that. That’s just a bunch of nonsense. Right?

Q: Right.

A: And then you’re in real trouble. Because there is something sacred, there is relatedness going on, that you have to tap into to really get the most out of being here. So some kind of maturity has to come, some different relationship with the concept. It’s not so simple. Sorry! If it is to you, well, there’s teachers that will support that. And if it speaks to you, well then you can go practice that way. It doesn’t speak to me, and it doesn’t speak to my students.

Q: But you said, you can’t tap into that greater connectedness. You can’t tap into that deeper-

A: I would rather not speak against somebody else’s way of going about it. Because part of my, what my message is: there’s more than one way to go about it. That everyone’s interpreting it. You have to know that you’re interpreting it, and that no one can reproduce Pattabhi Jois, and so even the person that’s trying their hardest is not reproducing Pattabhi Jois. They have really deviated from him by doing that. And so every single one of us is doing that, so that means that the student then has more responsibility. They have to kind of: what makes sense to me? Who’s person is actually speaking to me, the way they’re interpreting it? And then there’s a trust aspect that is parampara. You have to trust that that person is connected and that the way that their voice speaking it and teaching it is going to help you become part of it and benefit from it. But there’s so many different ways of seeing it. So many different perspectives and then that means choice, which is a good thing. So me, I’m not gonna say, my way is the only way. Of course, I’m not gonna say that.

Q: Well, to be clear, every teacher I’ve ever spoken to has pretty much said what you just said.

A: Okay.

Q: Pretty much. It’s I think students maybe that become more confused that we have a much more simplistic idea of what it is.

A: Ah.

Q: And that we’re supposed to choose this one person and-

A: But I will say, this is where is does get sticky. Because to me, even if I accept other views, I do not necessarily relate to the way that they approach it. And I do not necessarily agree or want to be involved with it. In that way, I do think that you, as a student, you can be confused if you try to have two teachers or three. And but that’s your own personal decision. And then you’re gonna have to synthesize that and make sense of it. But even as a teacher, for me, I prefer a student that their main perspective is coming from me. And that they might work with another teacher on a more superficial level as a variety or workshop, something. But that won’t interrupt the continuity that we have. So I’ll be honest, I’m less interested in like, sharing a perspective. And that might be wrong. I don’t know, but it’s true. I don’t wanna have to like, listen to my student go, well, this person told me to do it this way. And so then I’ve gotta kinda go, well, okay. You know, like I’m not into that particularly. I mean, I do it, but it’s not my favorite thing. I’d rather see the person and instruct them and have them respond to the instruction. And then go further.

Q: Well, it takes them away from the surrendering, yes?

A: It, well, I don’t know. It does go back to the my teacher, what he said, it’s just said, it’s so right. It’s “one doctor, two doctors, deathing is coming.” It’s just confusing. I don’t think that it’s necessary, I’m not sure why, what is the need within you to get multiple viewpoints.

Q: Ah, now here, but that’s-, so we talk about it being broad. There’s a lot more students out there right? When you say from when you were a student.

A: Yes.

Q: Way more, right?

A: Yes, yes.

Q: Um, there aren’t as many teachers for the students. And even someone like you, I mean, I don’t see you very of-. I don’t see you as often as I wish I did.

A: I know, but Peg, the thing is is that what I’ve seen and I’ve really watched this, is it’s true, I used to teach a daily Mysore class. So you had access to me six days a week for months on end. And that is true, you do not have that now. But I also have noticed that students, if they come to me twice in a year for a five day period, it’s enough. They grow. And if they go to a class where they’re not told other information, like they don’t work on something completely different. Or if they practice alone and they try to do exactly what I tell them and it’s very consistent, they’ll learn. Exactly. It happens. To me, you don’t need necessarily that daily teacher. But the optimal thing would be to, like for instance, my studio here, those teachers, they do their best to convey, within the spirit of what I am offering. Right? Of course they’re themself, but they also look to me for a lot of guidance as a main source of guidance. And so to come here, you actually get that perspective and then there’s continuity.

Q: But it’s a bigger perspective. We’re not talking about poses and series-

A: Yes, we are.

Q: Oh, I knew you were gonna say that.

A: We are talking so specific-, you made that statement that you don’t learn asana from me. That is just, I’m, I do not accept that at all. In fact, the moment you say that, then I’m lost, I can’t teach you anymore, because it’s not true. I am very-, look at me! I mean, I have the most detailed opinion of how to go about every single phase of every single asana. I mean, in fact, if I’m your teacher, you have to accept that, I’m gonna be, no! Where the other teachers, they don’t even, I don’t even think they they’ve looked, they haven’t looked at that!

Q: [laughs]I mean, Meghan said you looked at my downward dog and I was like, oh no! Well, when I say that, now to go back and when I think of the teachers as I’ve grown up, who have had the biggest influence on me, I can’t think of specifically what they taught me. I can’t remember the lessons. I can’t remember you know, the psychology teacher and exactly-

A: What their philosophy was.

Q: No, I don’t remember any of that. I remember bigger lessons. I remember other things. I remember the relationship, I remember the things that they uncovered in me. So when I say, you don’t teach me asana. That is-

A: That’s what you’re meaning and that’s very important. And truth, that’s truth. Right? But the ultimate is the combination. You take those larger sort of broader things that you can’t really describe and that, what you’re describing is really parampara. That’s the real thing. Where you-, the person turns you on to yoga, to what it is, like aha, it’s so beautiful and there’s no words. There’s no specific thing. There’s no series, there’s no nothing. Right? There’s no technique, it’s just a beautiful transmission of something invisible. Yes, that is true, in that sense, you’re right. And it’s true that you can get over-focused on details. Yes. But then there is, there is the other argument within that too. That the methodology for coming to consciousness, getting internalized awareness, knowledge, self-knowledge. There’s a method that through the asana, through the breathing, through the way you work, that the teacher can really help you along, make things less confusing and kind of accelerate your learning.

Q: Do you think that sometimes we put teachers on pedestals and we don’t allow them to be hu

A: It’s rare when it doesn’t happen. And it is almost impossible to get away from. I get sad about it, because I really feel that my students are almost depending upon not seeing me as a regular human being. Like they are dependent on it. If I show myself to be a regular human being, they will not be my student. And I feel like it’s not just a fear of mine, that it’s a reality. I don’t know, I’m wondering if it’s an inevitable thing. That the person has to see you in an idealistic sense. And yet, there’s such a danger to it, because you put your teacher on a pedestal, that’s the fast road to them falling off of that pedestal. I think that you have to realize that it’s a very inevitable tendency, but it’s a dangerous one. And you have to do your best to kind of respect your teacher, but not be unrealistic. That the teacher in some ways, it’s role the person plays. They play a role for you. But they’re just a flawed, just as many trips, just as unwise as you are, within given contexts. Right? So in their context, in the context you usually see them, they’re so wise. And they’re so skilled and they’re making so much sense. But you have to understand that there’s more to the person than that. And that they’re playing a role. And in some ways, the role, it does depend, like it’s so un-inspirational. If I’m just mean old David-

Q: Picking on a down dog.

A: Exactly! Then what? You know? And it’s hard, ’cause as a teacher, you’re trying to like, show your best. And not because you’re hiding, but because that’s what you value. Like, what’s valuable about me is what I’ve discovered about yoga and how beautiful it is and how much power that it does give you. And when I’m misbehaving or acting in ignorance, I don’t wanna show that. I don’t wanna teach you that. Why should I subject you to that about me? Right. And maybe if it helps you to grow or change, but really, I feel like my job is to lead you into the yoga techniques. But it is a given that I have not fully walked that path, that I’m still falling into ignorance, making all kinds of mistakes, and that even though in those moments I’m so confident and powerful when I’m offering those teachings, it still is true that I’m flawed.

Q: I just think that sometimes we do that. We wanna surrender and we wanna have that faith, but we look for reasons not to. And so by not allowing a teacher in their humanness, we’re looking, we wanna say, I’ve surrendered, but I’m really looking for a reason I shouldn’t.

A: Exactly! That is so true. And so here’s the thing I wanna tell you. That beautiful prayer that starts the study between the teacher and the student, “sahana bavatu, sahana bonaptu” [ph] when it says may we not dispute towards the end, in a way, that prayer is not-, it’s acknowledging that there will be dispute. There’ll be, so it’s not that there should be an absence of animosity, or tension. No, it’s saying that there needs to be forgiveness within that. That disagreement is going to be there. Imperfection in both directions, you’re going to mistreat your teacher and your teacher’s gonna read you wrong and make mistakes about how to work with you, and how to see you and how to respond to you. And you’re right, you don’t use that as proof to be like, oh! I don’t respect them. And this is the key. You value the learning more than anything, and both of you do. It’s the learning, it’s the techniques, it’s the yoga that you wanna share. And so, you’re willing to be forgiving because that person is imperfect. We know it. And so their transmission is going to be imperfect. But the spirit of it, the overriding sentiment is beneficial and invested in carrying the learning farther.

Q: Am I a tough student?

A: [laughs] Yeah. Why do you think you’re a tough student?

Q: I doubt.

A: Ah. And so that doubt? You see, I wanna tell you that my book, my new book, the Maps and Musings it addresses so many of these things, actually in these really nice little snippets. But it addresses that doubt and it says that’s it’s of course you have to work with it. I mean, partly, you have to analyze it, and accept the extent of it. Like, how big is it? How big is this doubt? Whoa, I have to explore it. But you do have to see it as an obstacle. It’s one of the antarrayas, it’s there. Doubt is a problem. But blind faith is also a problem. Okay? So you have to respect your doubt, but you also have to really into relationship with it, because the yoga sutras doubly reinforce it. Right, it goes doubt is an obstacle and shrugta is a practice you want. So you want the skill of faith and you want to recognize doubt as an obstacle.

Q: Now this is why you’re my teacher is because you just took a potential challenge that can happen in our relationship, and you turned it into a learning tool for me. To help me.

A: Right.

Q: Right, that’s-

A: Yeah. Some acceptance has to be there though. From you. Because doubt, being an obstacle, if you have a lot of it, if it’s there, it keeps coming, it keeps coming, well that’s an obstacle. That’s holding you back. But you don’t want doubt. Right? I mean, you have to analyze it carefully, how, what is the source? Where is this coming from? But some of it is like that [INAUDIBLE] what I was saying, it’s a bent, it’s already kind of established. You, it came with you and so there has to be forgiveness. Like, even if it seems to slow down your learning, there has to be some respect for it, because it does keep coming. So then how can I work with this, because it really is there. I love that like, Ingmar Bergman, when he was asked what are his demons in an interview and he had a list. He had a list of what they are: and the first was fear. So fear is a demon. And he was just like me, I couldn’t believe it came out of his mouth, ’cause me too. I’m just afraid all the time, it’s like, and it’s such a stumbling block to constantly have to deal with fear, instead of just responding. No, I have to be afraid first and go through this whole process and then respond. Right? So then the other one, for me too, he called it rage. Constantly angry. But there it is. And you have to deal with it. And so if it’s doubt, well, that’s a demon, it’s like, it’s something that is there, you don’t want it to be there, but there it is.

Q: I feel like the teacher-student relationship is necessary to address that. But maybe I’m making that up. I feel like there are things that the relationship has to hold that the practice can’t.

A: Yes.

Q: Do you think so?

A: I think so. And I-, it’s interesting that there’s so much emphasis on the guru in the texts and I think people can be so scared by it. By even the word guru. Like that it has cult-like things, but if you simplify it to teacher, it’s just such an integral part of the process and of any important subject. Because yoga’s such an important subject, that to it by yourself is nearly impossible. And so, that teacher-student relationship has to be there and it has to be a strong one, because what you’re saying, ’cause you’re dealing with these deep things like doubt. And the teacher, they really will help you go over that. They will. They’ll help you move through that and come to another place with it, the end.
Q: I know that you have to go, because you have a book signing and a book release party. So I just really have one more thing I’m hoping you’ll speak to a little bit and that is talking about the relationship and it’s the transference. I would say that some of that doubt coming in, but your reaction to it as it continues, it’s cyclical but it keeps, there’s a lot of forgiveness and a lot of softness that comes out of it. A lot of acceptance.

A: Yes.

Q: Which is what the doubt is the opposite of so there’s this acceptance that comes back, so it’s not a rejection. I have doubt, but instead of rejection coming back and judgment, it’s a lot of acceptance and a lot of forgiveness like you said.

A: And faith.

Q: And faith. Right-

A: And trust.

Q: But that kinda gets rid of some of the doubt on a superficial level. It keeps getting deeper right? And it keeps coming up and we keep going through that.

A: Yes, but let’s get clear though, that it’s not-, the doubt, it’s not just about me your teacher.

Q: No.

A: It’s about the practice.

Q: It’s about everything.

A: Yeah, it’s about-

Q: It’s about me.

A: No, let’s keep it in the yoga specific, practice that all of the techniques, everything, and that’s when you say I’m a difficult student, that is what I’m saying. That it does hinder your learning. Like it limits how much you make use of the techniques themselves. And so that’s challenging, ’cause I see it and I’m like, what can I do? You’re entering into suffering voluntarily. And so in that sense, it is challenging to observe. And you’re so talented, so gifted. And also, this doubt, it’s really the deep source is about trust, self-trust in a very deep way, that those techniques will help to give you. If you don’t doubt ‘em so much.

Q: But see, not teaching asana. I mean, I guess that’s what I’m saying, bottom line is, that relationship holds so much more

A: Yeah, yeah. No doubt, oh god, yes. It’s true. It’s the reason Pattabhi Jois was my teacher. It is the reason. I mean, I’ll be honest with you, both Krishnamacharya and Iyengar would have been better teachers for me except for in the quality you’re talking about. The reason that Pattabhi Jois was my teacher is because he accepted and he gave me what you’re talking about. He gave me something that I would have never got from them. In fact, I would have been terrified, I couldn’t have learned from them because that wasn’t there. That something, something. There’s something, I can’t quite tell what it is, but it’s, there’s an acceptance and there’s a affinity, an interest in the same subject, in a deep subject, deep within the psyche, within the person, within the soul, that’s there. There’s a match of like, a clarity and a sharing of that, that yeah, makes all the difference and that, so that then, the external playout of the different things is less important and it’s true, I agree with that.

Q: Oh, I’m gonna end with you saying that you agree with me! [laughs]

A: [laughs]

Q: Thank you.

PEG [CONCLUSION]: I really hope you enjoyed today’s episode. David Garrigues is one of those teachers who holds nothing back. He can be pretty intense at times as a teacher, believe me, but I also think he can be misunderstood as well. Yes, David emphasizes the asana yoga practice. I mean, just check out his Asana Kitchen Youtube channel for goodness sakes. Asana is pretty important to David, and he’s quite exacting in the yoga room for sure. David calls practice time awake time. The time when what you read in the yoga sutras or heard in your teacher’s dharma talk comes to life within your very own body. To me, the asanas are shapes, but David, he brings them to life. So maybe, just maybe in a way, we’re both right. If you really wanna get to know David better as a teacher, as well as the poet and artist he also is, you should definitely check out his two Ashtanga journals he’s just published along with his partner Joy. These are a collection of David’s own personal musings. Again, David doesn’t hold back and he even shares challenges he personally has encountered, his own doubts and growth and faith, hoping others will benefit from his honesty. Which I do, all the time. You can order these books, as well as find a wealth of other information from David on his website, davidgarrigues.com. Today’s podcast was brought to you by me, Peg Mulqueen, and my brilliant producer and editor, Chris Lucas of cwlucas.com. The Ashtanga Dispatch is a global and inclusive community, bringing together teachers and students devoted to the practice of Ashtanga yoga. All eight of those limbs. And sharing that love, both online and in person, through our audio podcast, and in print magazine. You can help support our efforts by sharing this podcast on Facebook, rating and reviewing us on iTunes, and by joining our network of friends from around the world. You can find all this and more on ashtangadispatch.com. Thanks again for tuning and please keep sharing the dispatch love.